The Concept of Authority Marketing

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to another episode of the Million Dollar Producer Show . Today , I'm thrilled to introduce our guest , steven Oliver , the author of the book Extraordinary Marketing for Financial Advisors and the host of the Financial Advisor Marketing Podcast . Steven's depth of knowledge in the realm of marketing , combined with his passion for the financial sector , has set him apart as a key influencer and thought leader for financial advisors . Welcome , steven .

Speaker 2 0:31

Thank you , good to be here . I'm excited to talk to you again .

Speaker 1 0:34

Yeah , definitely . I enjoyed being on your podcast I think it was a few weeks ago . Excited to have you on my podcast so my listeners can learn from your wisdom . And I'd love to start with who are you ? Who is Steven Oliver ? Give us a high-level overview of your background , anything that you think is important for our audience to know about you .

Speaker 2 0:51

Let me give you the short backwards of how I ended up here . I went to Georgetown University , got a degree in economics , thinking I was on my way to Harvard or Wharton for an MBA , and then on to Wall Street . In fact I interviewed with all the big Wall Street firms and one thing or another , and then made the strange decision to move to Denver and open a chain of martial arts schools . The backstory was that was always my hobby and I was thinking I was going to be a professional fighter at some point Sooner or later . I figured out getting hit in the front of Lobos over again or what they were getting paid was a bad strategy . I came to Denver . I opened five schools in 18 months , six schools in 30 months and ended up growing to 3,500 active students by the time . I was 25 years old .

Speaker 2 1:33

I was always interested in finance and in that area I went back and got an MBA . And then every time I turned around I was getting either a financial advisor or a commercial real estate broker or a managing partner of a law firm asking me how it was I was doing what I was doing . I was on infomercials , 30-second spots , full page ads in the newspaper and so forth and just ended up backwards back into this industry . I sought out an advisor at the time , one that I think back to in horror now . But I had a big staff and I was seeking out an advisor to deferred executive compensation for Golden handcuffs to keep my top people .

Speaker 2 2:13

His name was Peter Harnish with Northwestier Mutual . Every time I talked to him I went are you doing this ? Are you doing this ? Have you thought about this ? He's a top 110% to 1% producer for them . I think he's number 60 lifetime production in the history of the company . I was just amazed at how bad the marketing was within the industry and started working with him informally , started working with some other people informally than formally and then completely shifted gears to do for financial advisors what I was already doing with Marshall Art Schools . That spans 40 years . When I opened the schools it was exactly 40 years ago today or yesterday . That's the short thumbnail version of a weird trajectory here .

Speaker 1 2:57

Thank you for sharing that . If I heard you correctly , you've been working with financial advisors in some capacity for around 40 years .

Speaker 2 3:05

With financial advisors 15 to 20 years .

Speaker 1 3:07

You obviously have a wealth of experience from your own personal marketing and business to working specifically with financial advisors . Thank you for sending me a copy of your book , which I'm holding on the screen .

Speaker 1 3:18

This is quite comprehensive . I was just thumbing through it before the call . One of the things that stood out to me was that you have a testimonial by a gentleman named Dan Kennedy . For anyone that doesn't know Dan Kennedy , he's definitely someone you want to check out . He's my so-called marketing guru of choice . I've been learning from him through all his different training programs for probably close to a decade now . I'd just love to know a little bit more about what is your relationship with Dan Kennedy .

Speaker 2 3:44

I fell into him backwards . When I was doing coaching and consulting one thing or another with martial arts schools when the internet revolution came on , which is hard to believe . It's 20 years ago or so now . I wrote a book in 1999 on marketing your martial arts school via online sources . Back then , that's pre-Google . So it was Alta Vista and Yahoo was a directory and the only pay-per-click was . What became was GoTo , which became Overture , which became Google's inspiration . I stumbled across Dan Kennedy because he was like the source of all the gurus that I was following on the internet side .

Speaker 2 4:20

He's the guru of gurus . That's right , everybody Frank Kern was in the little group that we were in Yannick Silver , corey Rudle who passed away sadly from a racing accident , and any number of others , but I ended up going to some of his seminars , becoming a part of his little mastermind group , what back then he called the platinum group . It ultimately ended up being the titanium group and then a private client . So I'm actively a private client of Dan's . I've worked with Dan forever With my coaching business . Lee Miltier is a part of that , for those who are on Insider . She's Dan's best friend and she's also a personal development guru who works with our clients as well . So I've been in that loop with him for easily 24 years . I recently went and did a speaking gig for the new owners , which is Russell Brunson , of his company relaunching magnetic marketing in Boise .

Speaker 1 5:15

No , I'm aware it's interesting . I heard , I want to say a few years ago that Dan was in hospice oh yeah , bad . And then , from what I know , this is in my information's dated , but he recovered and I don't know how he's doing today . So is he out and about healthy or is he out where he's at today ?

Speaker 2 5:36

Absolutely . In fact , the rumor mill was that he was dead and understandably he's diabetic and he was in really bad shape . He was in hospice , as you said , not expected to recover , then , amazingly enough , made a recovery . He still is blind enough that he can't drive and has some ongoing health issues , but no , he's back working and he's doing coaching and does some copywriting projects and , occasionally speaking , not a lot . He does some gigs for Russell Brunson and does some things on his own . He just had an event in Cleveland .

Speaker 1 6:10

So the overarching theme that I think you and I can have a really good conversation about , as it ties into your book or just to your experience more broadly , is I'm a student and really from learning from Dan Kennedy , I would say the concept of authority marketing is because I believe you are as well In your mind what is authority marketing and why is it important .

Speaker 2 6:34

It's obviously a big topic , right and in your specialty is for a financial advisor , putting together a book . I pull it all the way back to before I moved to Denver . I was living in the Library of Congress and one of the books that I came across was a book called positioning I forget the full title of the power of your mind or something like that , and it was all about companies positioning themselves as the market leader and how to describe that . And back then it was IBM launching the PC and Avis versus Hertz and examples like that . But all of the concepts are just as valid now as they were then . Is you know what ?

Building Authority for Financial Advisors

Speaker 2 7:14

I don't know if you read Tim Ferriss's book Four Hour Workweek , but in his book he talks about the old fat , baldheaded guy in the red BMW and not wanting to be that guy , but I think of it as advisors is they're having this sameness contest . We talk about him behind the scenes , disparagingly sometimes , as all wearing a JC penny suit , sitting behind an oak desk , trying to be as bland and as common as possible , and part of the way that you build authority . In fact , when I went launch the book , one of the facts is that I have from Dan . He was referencing his work with financial advisors and he made a reference which I talk about in the book to the theme song of Weeds .

Speaker 2 7:55

Now , I had never watched the show and I had no idea what he was talking about . I had to go look it up . But if you look at the lyrics , what it is is basically about ticky , tacky little houses . Everybody goes to the same college , comes out are all the same . They all live in houses that are all the same . They all kids go to the same school . They're all the same . There are niches that are bad CPAs what distinguishes them ? But I don't think there's one that's as bad as financial advisors and in part it's probably fear of compliance . They've all kind of been beat down into feeling like they have to be the same and of course in big companies Northwestern Mutual , etc . They all get slapped around with very little flexibility in some things . But part of what builds authority is being memorable . If you think about attorneys that you remember . His name's going to slip my mind , but remember the guy on the OJ trial that had the sway jacket and the ponytail and yeah , so let's test that .

Speaker 1 8:56

So there's Johnny Cochran , and then there was the Kardashian dad . I forget . I can't think of his name , but those are the two that stand out . Then there was the prosecutor . I think her name was Marcia and of course you had Judge Guido . But I think to your point is this is what 28 years ago , and why ?

Speaker 2 9:13

are they ?

Speaker 1 9:13

stuck in my head , yeah a long time ago .

Speaker 2 9:17

What happens on building authority is so many times and you see the advertising that goes on in this niche and others is what's different about you , right , is , are you the authority in your area or are you just no worse than anybody else ? That was another theme that stuck out to me years ago . I was a big Tom Hopkins fan long before I knew who Tom Kennedy was , and one of the things he said is most businesses are promoting themselves with the theme of we're no worse than anybody else . That's what it is , and the idea of authority is to be the guru on the top of the mountain . And you mentioned Dan . Nobody's better than Dan . The only way to communicate with Dan is by facts . Right , I still have an e-facts number because , only because I communicate with fact by fact . He's very annoyed with that . He wants everybody to have a who's communicating with the man of physical fact and seeing blood being through .

Speaker 1 10:14

I think at this point he's just messing with people .

Speaker 2 10:16

I think so , yeah , but legitimately he doesn't have email , he doesn't spend any time online to speak of , but that inaccessibility is one of the things that makes him be able to charge whatever it is nowadays $19,000 a day or something like that and makes him really attractive for people to work with him and as an advisor . There's a number of ways to accomplish that . One is what you're really good at is do your own book . Now , neither one of us would recommend an advisor go do something that's like that for their book . It's really as a marketing tool and a positioning 50 pages , 80 pages , 90 pages , something like that is fine . This actually came out of .

Speaker 2 11:02

We got together and did a marketing program and my associate who works for me , greg Moody . We rented a board room when we were in Annapolis doing a thing at the Naval Academy anyway , and we did two full days at a video room . Meet us there and it was a marketing program that got transcribed . Then we handed it off , or I handed it off to a professional writer to clean up the transcripts . Then I didn't like anything the writer did , so I took another three months and rewrote everything . You know how that goes . But from a purely marketing and positioning perspective . I wouldn't recommend somebody do something like that . Right , this is pretty comprehensive .

Speaker 1 11:44

Yeah , and it'd be clear for some of that's listening and not watching . You're referring to your book , which I have in my hand here and it looks like it's 341 pages . Yes , yes . So it's a Bible in rough I'll use .

Speaker 2 11:58

it's a place of source of wisdom that dives into many different topics , but it's not a light read per se that's exactly right and in fact , as a marketing tool for me to use towards advisors . The back story is it's going to become probably 10 books , so it's going to be . It's going to be chopped up , become short books that then , in internet marketing terms , are lead magnets . Free PDF downloads , one thing or another , but from a billed authority . One is a perception of inaccessibility . Two is to create a perception at least of your in high demand Right , one of the things that Kennedy does , and he got it from Nino Quibane , but the whole idea of he publishes his calendar and always looks like it's full and if I can schedule an appointment , it's going to be three weeks from Tuesday or something like that . It's not . Oh yeah , I completely free all day , tomorrow , the next day , whenever I book it , but so inaccessibility , that's the guru on the top of the mountain and being in just a very practical term .

Speaker 1 13:03

So I totally agree , but just in very practical terms . What impact does that have ? Why is that helpful ?

Speaker 2 13:10

There's another great book I hate to always quote other people's stuff , but to influence science and practice by Robert Childing . Yeah , great book , and one of the things that he points out is the key elements of influence . One of them is social proof . Yeah , and I ran martial arts schools and the mistake that those guys make is they want a 15,000 square foot massive facility and then what happens is , no matter how successful they are , it always looks empty . Now you have had a mastermind group that I used to go with a mentor . His name is Nick O'Kenas .

Speaker 2 13:41

We used to go to Fort Lauderdale down on sunrise and there's this little Italian place called Big Louise and we would go over there and it had maybe 10 tables . There was so busy . They had the hostess on the sidewalk and people waiting around in the parking lot to get in . What you assume . Big Louise must be really good because it's always busy . On the other hand , recently I walked into a Chinese restaurant here . They must have had 100 tables . There was two people here Just prime time . Nobody's here . It must be horrible . So part of that idea is the social proof . That place is so busy , the guy is so busy , you must be the best , right , and I think what advisors are afraid of is they're afraid of . I want somebody , when they reach out to me , to get hold of me immediately because right .

Speaker 2 14:28

So , they're carrying around their cell phone . Their clients are texting them . They're calling them back immediately . They're instantly responsive by email . But if you train clients that you can schedule appointment and you're available by appointment , and if you train prospects , like for me , when we have somebody new come in , I have Mindy or Bob . They screen people , then I have Jeff and Greg . They talk to them first and so somebody's already gone to three or four layers before they ever get to me .

Speaker 2 14:59

If that's the case , I must be pretty important right and from my standpoint , instead of me talking to every Tom , dick and Harry , I'm only talking to the ones that look like they're good , fed or good or really serious , have jumped through some hoops and are ready to do whatever the next step is going to be , and advisors really should replicate that . It shouldn't be that all of your clients are reaching out to you by email at any time of the day . It should be . There's a process or somebody to go through , and that's again something that Tim Ferriss's book . I thought that was 75% silly , but 25% was just absolutely phenomenal .

Speaker 2 15:39

He's talked about on his email . It had an auto responder and he first put on there that I check email every Friday from four to five PM . But in the meantime , if you have a crisis , this person handles . This person handles this person handles this . So he directed . I actually have an auto responder on my email . You may have seen it that has a little clip from money Python of I'm not dead yet and it says I really don't read email . If you know who I am , text my assistant . We could schedule an appointment . And so even at that level it's telling people not only am I not going to get back to you within 12 seconds , this is not the way to get to me

Setting Expectations and Valuing Time

Speaker 2 16:17

at all .

Speaker 1 16:17

Yeah , it is really just to my own words is really setting expectations , not just to get new clients , but really the whole process of working with people . I think what proceeds is what follows , and so , if I guess , the paradox that I see out there is that ultimately the advisor wants to be in the position of trusted advisor , someone whose advice is valued , and the people go to them for that advice because they value it . But if in the whole sales process they are seen as salespeople in a negative way , where they're chasing their pushy , they're too available and all these different things , even if they get the client , guess what . You've set those expectations going forward about how available you are and that your time really isn't that important . And so it just sets up this terrible dynamic where , as , conversely , if you are able to communicate , whether it's directly or indirectly , through just how you position yourself and how you act and behave , then from the get go the person sees your time is valuable , they know that they shouldn't waste it , and then that carries on throughout the rest of the relationship .

Speaker 1 17:33

I guess the question I have from there is that I heard you say that , at least the perception I'm guessing this is for you and for me it's generally true where I'm just really busy and it's designed intentionally . But it's also true that I don't have time to waste and someone has my calendar . They can schedule my screen as appropriate for someone that's looking to get . It says hey , I want to . I'd love to be able to do that . That's my dream . How do I go from where I am to being able to turn that into a reality ? What's the high level playbook ? I know there's many different things that can be done , but what's in your mind ? The playbook to go from A to B .

Speaker 2 18:11

Oh , yeah , yeah . And there's any number of pieces , obviously , but I think one of them is everything is scheduled by appointment and you time block your time and , of course , I think you were using calendarly . I use one sub , that's the same thing . Everything is booked by appointment and anytime you're booking an appointment , there's a start time and an end time and people miss that point . Right , I booked myself in 20 minute increments or in like we booked 45 minutes here , but sometimes people miss that endpoint thing . Right Is , if I know , like when I talk with Dan , if I've got 20 minutes I'm going to get to the point and I know when our stop time is and I don't know how many conversations I've had with him and he goes . I'm at a clock , I got to go , right , okay , yeah .

Speaker 1 18:57

No , in my case , and this is both for myself , just to remind me , but I have this little clock that I'm holding up on the screen and if it's a 15 minute call , I'll set to 15 minutes because I'll get absorbed in the conversation . But what happens is that 15 minutes , they start scoring beep , beep , beep , which does two things it alerts me Okay , I need to manage this time . And secondly , it sends the signal Okay , times up , we need to wrap this up , or whatever . I find it invaluable .

Speaker 1 19:21

Myself , interestingly , I was just had a conversation with a new , soon to be , client of mine . I'd never talked to her before , complete stranger . She's an advisor . She was on my email list and she scheduled with me and I spoke to her , I want to say , just earlier this week , and the first thing out of her mouth was like wow , I've been waiting , I've been so excited to have this call with you and this was the soonest I could get on your schedule . So what does that say to you ? Immediately ? I'm like , okay , this is going the way that I've designed this to work . You bet and then and then , as part of that , that's kind of part of the educating in advance and letting your marketing , in my mind , do a lot of the work for you Is that she had already downloaded my audio book , she had gone through it , she had taken a bunch of notes and I could tell this just by the opening things that she was saying and the questions and her enthusiasm .

Speaker 1 20:09

So , again me , without having ever known who this person was prior to that call . I have someone who's so excited to work with me and in one call we basically signed her up . Oh yeah , it's amazing because normally for me that could be a one or two call process . It really just depends on I need to determine how much they know about me . I think you have a few more layers in between .

Speaker 1 20:32

You bet I'm also the first layer , but I limit my time to 15 minutes for reasons , but mostly it's to say , okay , between now and our next call , this is the assignment , which is to go read , listen to my book so that when we come back and talk that we can have a productive conversation . So I put up those hoops if they haven't already gone through them and , by extension , that's the process I want for the visors that I work with . Right , it's that your time is valuable , but you also have to have the mindset , your behavior has to follow your intention . In other words , you can't just say , hey , I want people to value my time . Then your behavior demonstrates the opposite .

Speaker 1 21:12

Yeah , you have to be willing to let opportunities go , because you follow the process that you've designed intentionally to create the outcome that you want .

Speaker 2 21:22

Yeah , let's unravel what you said a little bit and think of it in two different sides . On the sales perspective , nothing is more powerful than what's often referred to as takeaway selling or having a qualification process . And in every business that I work with I always tell them think about your , the Harvard or West Point admissions officer , where when you're interviewing them , they're trying to prove to you that they're going to qualify rather than you're coming across as pitching them . I did that when I went to Georgetown . I interviewed Harvard , princeton , georgetown , one thing or another went to Washington because I had a job there already .

Speaker 2 21:59

But when you're interviewing at highly selective universities , they're ticking the boxes do you fit ? No . And when I went there I remember I got a letter back of hey , thank you for applying , and I transferred . So it was something like we have 18,000 applicants for 40 transfer spots and good luck and best wishes , we'll see . That was basically the gist of it .

Speaker 2 22:25

So one part of it is that are you making them qualify , jump through hoops and making it special to work with you , rather than you're trying to talk them into working with you ? That has to be the perception . But the other thing that you said and like in our case , maybe it's a leak , cold lead that comes in , but they'll get a big package in the mail . You know it's a shock and all box and one thing or another . But then when we schedule the appointment , there's an assignment to watch a video and read materials and so forth before the first meeting . And then between this first and second meeting there's another assignment . And when I'm on the phone with them the first thing I'm going to ask is did you go through this ? Oh no , let's schedule a time after you've had a chance to do that and I'll send them back to go do their homework assignment .

Speaker 1 23:13

And just to interject for a second . It's amazing because everything you just said 100% aligned with . I referred to the interview process , as I use the analogy of American Idol Are you the contestant or are you the judge ?

Speaker 2 23:24

You bet .

Speaker 1 23:25

Same concept . And then , yeah , no , 100% going through the process , if there was an assumption or an assignment given to do something , in my cases to read the book , and they come and they don't , and they haven't done that . Because that's the first question I asked , I was like , great , this is not going to be a good use of our time . If you're interested , I'm happy to talk to you , but let's do this and so 100% aligned with you .

Speaker 2 23:45

Yeah . Plus , if we've set aside whether it's 15 minutes or 45 minutes , that's predicated on the fact that you have an existing base of knowledge coming in and now we're looking to see if it's a good fit and whether you qualify to work with us or not . I can't chew up 42 out of 45 minutes or 29 out of 30 minutes explaining to you what you should already know . No , 100% . And having and again , it's not being arrogant , it's not being standoffish , anything else , it's if somebody's just coming to you , just give me the bottom line Okay , we may not be a good fit . No , because I want to know that . And , by the way , as soon as you in any way , shape or form reject people , that's when they want it most .

Speaker 1 24:28

If you've just done the score , that's the takeaway .

Speaker 2 24:30

Exactly . If I'm begging you to buy from me , it's not very attractive . If I'm saying I'm not sure you're a good fit , we need to go through this and go through this and we'll decide if that's going to be a good fit . Now you're back to again American Idol or the Harvard Admissions Officer . You're back to . Which hoops are you going to jump through in order to get to that point ?

Speaker 1 24:55

As part of that . So I guess the question that comes up is that for an advisor is how do I create ? I want to do that , but I think on a practical level many advisors don't have the demand on their calendar , their schedule et cetera , so they don't feel comfortable doing that . It's easy to do that when you have a lot of demand and you can legitimately say , hey , I just got so much time , and then it's much more natural to do that . At least that's my experience . But for a lot of the clients that I work with or start working with , the challenge that they have is that they don't have enough demand and so they , I think , have a scarcity mindset that if they do this they're going to miss the one opportunity or the two opportunities or whatever the number is . So it's just from a lead generation marketing perspective and I'm going to wear you up with us what do you see working the best today for advisors to generate the demand that fills up their calendar potentially with qualified prospects ?

Speaker 2 25:58

Right , and there's any numbers of examples . But take the one word you use scarcity mentality is . Selling hungry out of desperation is always going to be bad right . To quote Dan Kennedy , it's a lot easier to do that when there's another bus coming .

Marketing for Attracting Ideal Clients

Speaker 2 26:16

Prospect To me .

Speaker 2 26:17

The reason why and I go all the way back to the first martial arts school I did is I figured out very early on I was good at marketing from day one , only because I had time to prep and we're studying with people who are actually masters of it back then . But the biggest reason to get good at marketing is so you only accept clients that are good fit with you because if you think about it , whether it's 80 , 20 or 90 , 10 , most of us build up a client roster of people who can fog a mirror . Right , if they're check or clear and they can fog a mirror , I'm going to take them . And then you and I both talk to advisors who they spend all their time whining about their clients . You found them , you took them .

Speaker 2 27:02

If you only want to work with entrepreneurs , or if you only want to work with doctors , or if you only want to work with people with 3 million in up or people who are liquidating your business , whatever it is . Go find the people you want to work with . The first question I ask advisors is , if we went through your client roster number one , take the 20% that you love working with , forget about the others , and what's the commonality with those people ? Let's go find those people , right ? Yeah , but I need a certain number of sales , or I need wait a minute . No , let's go get who you want and forget about everybody else . And then , who you want , they're going to be willing to jump through some hoops . The problem is finally have one or two prospects coming in every month and I'm barely paying the bills . That's when I'm going to just take whoever fogs the mirror .

Speaker 1 27:48

No right . I find also there's short term and long term thinking . I find , for the most part , that most advisors are naturally salespeople and they're not marketing people by contrast , not marketing people . So they are action takers when it comes to sales and want to talk to people . I want to do all these things , which , of course , sets up a lot of these dynamics , whereas my approach , of course , starting with a book , is okay . Before we go and implement stuff , we need to have the marketing collateral in place , and so , in my case , I focus on a book which then creates the messaging , which then creates the whole ability to have a funnel of sorts and create authority and all these different things . But the pushback I'll get , if you will , is that most people want to jump into the lead generation , into the sales side , but it sets up this vicious cycle where now you're just repeating and doing the same thing because you haven't gone really good at marketing and you haven't invested the time , resources whatever in the collateral that you need to be successful .

Speaker 1 28:46

As an example , I just I'm about to publish my next book . Of course , the reason that I wrote it , my motivation , was that , okay , I have a service that I want to sell . So I have an end . And then I just work my way backwards to okay , what's the stories and the framework and all these different things to take someone from I don't know anything to ? They go through that and they're like I need this , where has this been all my life ? And so I start with the marketing collateral and then , once the marketing collateral is in place , I say , okay , now I'm going to go and talk about it .

Speaker 2 29:18

You bet .

Speaker 1 29:19

Because I have that in place .

Speaker 2 29:20

You bet and , using marketing terminology , that's the difference between chasing down cold leads or chasing down constant , never ending referrals , especially if you've built a business of people that weren't a good fit to begin with . They all know other people like them , right ? That's part of the fallacy of this business . One of my favorite sales movies it's a good example of all the stuff not to do is the old , the first Wolf of Wall Street movie Boiler Room . In fact , I was at Stratton Oakmont years ago . We were actually the in the Wolf of Wall Street movie .

Speaker 2 29:56

The first IPO that they showed was a friend of mine , mark Glaser , master Glaser Karate and after they had done the IPO , we were looking at doing a merger and I was going to become CEO of the thing . Luckily ordered all the documents from the FTC . This is pre-internet and pretty quickly figured out . It didn't smell right . But in the boiler room everybody's doing cold calls and you're getting people on the phone and one thing or another . That's the opposite of positioning yourself as an authority , right ? Somebody like Dan Kennedy or Jay Abraham or picture whoever it is . The last thing they're gonna be doing is doing 100 cold dials a day right Now .

Speaker 2 30:38

So having , as you said and you used intermittent marketing terminology a lead magnet . So a book or a report or a white paper or a webinar or whatever it is , having that , as the offer eliminates that is , I can put out on Facebook and LinkedIn , on Google , on by direct mail , whatever is , here's a free offer , no obligation . If you're interested , here's the offer . Or it's 997 , it's 997 , whatever it is , and here's the offer . And then once they respond , you know somebody who's warm and then you can move them into the funnel to then talk to . Right .

Speaker 2 31:17

But it's a completely different dynamic of I'm begging all my clients for who their three friends are . Then I'm cold calling the clients of you're a friend of Jim Jones and I thought you might need my service . The good thing is they're a friend of Jim Jones . The bad thing is your positioning on day one is horrible . So I think that's where people have to shift their mindset from the go hunt what you kill and just beat the phones and cold contacting to putting out bait to get people to raise their hand . Most advisors love to hate them , but it's something that Fisher does very well .

Speaker 1 31:50

I wanna shift gear slightly and talk about so someone's listened to this concept , right , it's great . I think this is music to someone's ears . I know it's music to my ears . I love authority marketing . I love operating in a world where I've set up these systems and they work fantastically . I honestly can't remember a bad sales call I've had in I wanna say years , because it doesn't mean everyone's right fed , which just means that I don't talk to people who don't demonstrate that they're a good fit , or it gets shut down very quickly .

Speaker 1 32:23

So I never chased someone it's always attraction based and moving forward based off of those conditions . So I wanna so for someone to listen to this and they're interested in learning more about your work and maybe , more specifically , how you help them achieve this situation . What can you so ? What should someone know about your services , your books , the material you have out there ?

Speaker 2 32:46

I'd love for them to pick up the book . It's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble one thing or another , but if they go to my website , advisorwealthmasterycom , we give away a free digital copy

Effective Marketing Strategies for Financial Advisors

Speaker 2 32:56

. And where we're at is mostly working with higher end advisors , working with them in a direct support mode and then suggesting that they do a book , that they do reports , that they do webinars and so forth and , if they want to do that , recommending you or recommending people for the appropriate thing . But we work with them on strategies and tactics and mostly , frankly , what most of them most of them , as you said are sales focused but aren't marketing focused and they almost always do too few things . That's why I put that nemen of Wall Street up there is . We talk about building the Parthenon , so the facade is a good example of let's build lots of different pillars of marketing to bring people in , not just do one thing .

Speaker 1 33:43

Yeah , no , I think that's really smart . It's myself and my own business . I have multiple pillars of marketing that I do . I'm always evaluating what works , what doesn't work , but the things that work I pour more energy , more resources into and through a combination of strategies I'm able to keep the calendar nicely filled . And so I think oftentimes there's this sense that there's one thing if I'm on , do Facebook , or if I do seminars , if I do LinkedIn or if I do this , it's ultimately you want to .

Speaker 1 34:12

Synergy of the things that work best , but it starts from the positioning right . It doesn't matter what the tactic is . I think the precursor to that is that you want the positioning down , so that anything you do is gonna be that much more successful .

Speaker 2 34:30

And I might add to that too . I think most advisors misperceive how most sales processes go right . They think I get in front of people , they set an appointment , they buy or they don't buy right . 10 , 3 , 1 , 10 , 3 , 1 , that old formula . I did an admittedly imperfect survey of my clients . We had about 40 of them on a Zoom call and I said how long were you following me before we started working together ? One of the guys said seven years , another one said nine years . A couple of them had been clients , left and came back , and there may have been one or two that said I discovered you and I came on board , but you mentioned seminars .

Speaker 2 35:13

Every time I talk to an advisor and I'm not sure there's an exception to this I say what's your primary marketing method ? And some of them say dinner meetings or lunch meetings or webinars , whatever . First question is do you follow up when they register or do you follow up when they show up ? It's always when they show up . What do you do with everybody who didn't show up ? Nothing ? What do you do with everybody who showed up and didn't make an appointment ? Nothing right , and to me , especially online , a webinar it's the registration that's important . I really don't even care if they showed up for the meeting .

Speaker 2 35:51

And you and I are both doing lots of things . We use LinkedIn a lot , both cold contacting and posting all that stuff . I have a you and I both have a podcast , a YouTube channel . You can go through the list . I know a lot of advisors that I've worked with . They followed the podcast for a year and a half . By the time I talked to them they already felt like they knew me .

Speaker 2 36:14

Another coach that I worked with , dan Caprell . I followed his podcast for a year before I ever met with him and I felt like I knew him . I knew his kid , I knew his dog , his wife , where he liked to vacation . He was a life fisherman and part of the and , by the way , the dumbest conversation I've had recently was I was talking to an advisor . He was an MBA from Northwestern Mutual . I thought he was smart and he said I connect with people on LinkedIn If they haven't met with me within 30 days . I ask him . It's 30 days . Some of them it's going to be three years . Some of them it's going to be two years . Some of it say went on Christmas holidays and are pissed off their brother-in-law is doing something that they're not doing . Who knows what gets them . A lot of people just feel like they have to understand research and know you better before they're going to actually meet . I hate , I don't like meeting with people on the phone . I don't like making appointments to go to their office . I'd rather research a lot . Go ahead .

Speaker 1 37:12

No , 100% . I call it the trust barrier . There's timing , there's okay , this is on my radar . I'm not ready to act yet . I want to start gathering some resources , some options , but then to the day , it's what I call the trust barrier . It's not some slick messages . I need to know enough about you and feel comfortable that you're the right fit Now . Depending on the motivation of the person , that can happen over the course of a day , a week , a month .

Speaker 1 37:36

But to your point and there's statistics out there but I think the vast majority of people , when they enter your world as a lead , it's just on the radar , it's not pressing yet and if you don't have systems in place to build that relationship over time with them in a way that doesn't require you calling them , but it's done through podcasts , books , etc . Again , going back to the person I mentioned earlier today or earlier in this call , who scheduled with me on Tuesday , and she was so excited and it was a great call . I looked at the history of emails . She had joined my list . I want to say six months ago , right , it wasn't just like one and done , it was a six-month thing .

Speaker 1 38:16

But it's that patience and that long-term strategy and focus that creates these dynamics and I think it really comes down to mindset right . If you're looking for the I want to pounce as soon as someone shows interest , then you're going to be stuck in that chase . Your time's not valuable dynamic for the most part . But if you're willing to look longer term and be more strategic , then you can create what I would describe as a very fabulous model of I enjoy what I do . I'm not a salesperson , right ? I guess I am . I don't think of myself as a salesperson because I'm a marketing person , but at times I talk to someone . It's just enjoyable for the most part .

Speaker 2 38:52

You bet , you bet Go all the way back to 1983 , 1984 , is I started realizing very early on we were running full page ads and the TV guide in both major daily papers , so 850,000 distribution more or less the Rocky Mountain News , denver Post and Denver Metro area back then , and I would have people who told me they had seven or ads torn out of the paper under the microphone and the refrigerator before they got around to it . Right , and what's happened in the digital age is people don't like direct mail for whatever reason . But the nice thing about physical deliverables is that you put it under the magnet on the refrigerator , sits on the desk . The thing about books is I keep encountering people who say I just sent them a PDF . Okay , fine , but they either take action now or they don't .

Speaker 2 39:43

I've had people's book as literally as a coaster on my desk for seven months before I ever got around to talking to them . Right , I've had people mail me seven or eight different things before I ever got to it and I'd go oh yeah , I meant to talk to them and I put it down and what happens is text messages and emails only are good for today . Nobody , and I'm exaggerating , but I don't know . I probably printed this year two emails to hold on to it , and hell , I owe you a testimonial for your book . I have it right here . I have the PDF on my desktop . I forgot about it . It's really good , but it got lost in the shuffle of 200 emails today and it's that type of thing .

Speaker 2 40:29

You just have to keep dripping on them and educating them and waiting patiently sometimes . But again , even back to that , that old tried and true formula 10 , 3 , 1 . What do you do with the other nine ? Right , Okay , so I had 10 . I got one .

Speaker 2 40:45

They're not no sales , they're just I didn't get them yet . Yeah , I keep dropping emails on them once or twice a day . If I keep texting them periodically , if I keep mailing them stuff and I play prospects for every advisor I can possibly do . There's exactly one guy that I come across and they're in the Denver Metro area and I've never worked with them Hounzen is the name . But two or three times a month I get mail from them .

Speaker 2 41:12

I get invitations for the golf event , I get invitations for the anniversary celebration picnic , I get invitations to a seminar or a different thing and of all the people that I have opted in including Fisher , by the way opted in and followed up on , they're the only ones that know . And I wasn't playing prospect because I was needed an advisor . I was playing prospect because I like to see everybody's marketing . So they're wasting the money on me , but what's happening is they're closing probably three times more sales than most of these other guys are , because they know that once somebody's raised their hand they're worth . Somebody's raised their hands worth a hundred fold more than just somebody on a cold list somewhere .

Speak With Experts for Wealth Management

Speaker 1 41:54

No , 100% . So , wrapping things up , this has been a fantastic conversation . I definitely enjoyed it . I definitely enjoy talking to experts such as yourself that have a lot of experience , because these are the topics I like to geek out about , so hopefully this has been this conversation has been beneficial to our listeners and , again , for someone who wants to reach out to you or just learn more about you , what's the best next step for them ?

Speaker 2 42:20

Just go to advisorwealthmasterycom the phone number's there . You'll get my associate , or you can get a free copy of the book , or it'll take you over to Barnes and Noble Amazon . If you prefer not to give us your contact information , just go get it . Perfect .

Speaker 1 42:34

Thank you so much for your time today . I've enjoyed the conversation and I'm glad that you're a guest on today's show .

Speaker 2 42:39

Thank you , paul , I very much enjoyed it .