Welcome And Mark’s Backstory

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Influential Advisor Podcast. Today my guest is Mark Rasner, a financial advisor with over thirty-two years of experience helping families build and protect lasting wealth. Mark grew up on a dairy farm in Upper Michigan, went on to complete two Iron Man triathlons, and built a career helping people achieve true financial freedom. His book, The Group of Mindset, draws on that journey to explain why only five to ten percent of people ever reach financial freedom and what separates the ones who do from everyone else. In this conversation, Mark is going to show you exactly what it takes to move from one group to the other and why most people never do.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Mark, welcome to the podcast. We're excited to get to talk to you today. Thank you. Good to be here. Welcome, Mark. Mark, you've been a financial advisor for over 32 years. But your journey, it started on a dairy farm in Michigan. So can you tell us about your background and how watching your father transform from a farmer to a financial advisor shaped your own path?

A Father’s Career Pivot

Paying For College Without Loans

SPEAKER_02 1:12

When you try to write a book like this, you spend a lot of time reflecting on your journey and thinking about who the big mentors were, who the leaders were in your life, role models, influential people. And the one I kept coming back to the most was my dad. So my dad grew up on a dairy farm in Upper Michigan. And like most young kids, he after high school wanted to get out of Don. So he chased my young lady, my mother now, down to Milwaukee, where he got into the banking industry for a few years. But then as they started to have kids and we were getting a little bit older, they had that heart-to-heart conversation and realized, hey, we don't really want to raise our kids in a big city. We'd like to be back in a smaller atmosphere, smaller town. So they moved back up to upper Michigan. And by this point, my uncle had been running the farm and dad got a job back on the family farm. Flash forward a few years as a kid growing up. What I had learned in that moment was that if you were to look at financially, did we have a lot of things or money? But by all practical measures, we were poor. My mom used to make her shirts when we'd go to school. She would pack our lunches. Dad would bring home the milk from came fresh out of the bulk tank, which was the grossest thing ever. You get the cream at the top. I can't touch it to this day. So we grew up relatively poor, but we didn't know it. As kids, we thought we were rich because what we had was a very tight-knit family. My parents were very strong, faith-based, work hard, strong work ethic, love for their kids, and they were always there for us. That's what I knew growing up. But flash forward a little bit more, the farming industry had been a little challenging and was heading in a bad direction. And my dad made a decision to do something different. He wanted something more for his family. And a gentleman had tapped him along the way and said, Hey, Jerry, I think you ever think about being coming a financial advisor? I think you'd be really good at it. Well, that planted a seed. So this gentleman planted a seed in my dad's head. And dad then started thinking about, hey, I want more for the family. I don't like the direction this is going. He didn't have a college degree, so he felt a little inferior, but he had to work his tail off to prove his worth and whatever. So he made the decision, became a financial advisor, and then got on a pretty fast track up into training, leadership, management, etc. The big determining thing for me, though, is when I was a sophomore in high school, I watched dad progress from working his tail off on the farm to working his tail off in the financial planning career, still not home a whole lot, but he worked work. But all of a sudden, he bought a new lawnmower. We didn't have to push mow anymore. We bought a riding lawnmower, bought a new car, we took a family vacation. All of a sudden, we started to have things that we didn't have before. And then when I was a sophomore in high school, we were able to go downtown for lunch. And I come around the corner from lunch one day, and there's this couple, and they're walking up and they looked at me and they said, You're a reasoner, aren't you? I'm like, Are you Jerry's kid? I'm like, yeah. And then all of a sudden they just opened up. It's they just they melted. They're like, Oh, what an awesome guy. He has helped us manage, get our finances in order. Genuinely a good person. And they just had love and respect for him. I made a connection at that moment because people ask you, Oh, Mark, how come you got into the financial planning career? I can go right back to that moment. And the connection I made is that dad was getting paid well to help people. And I like people and I like money. Seemed like a good fit. I told dad, I said, I think I know what I want to do now when I go to college because college was non-negotiable. It was we were going to college, come heck or high water because dad wanted better for the kids, and he's no, you're going to college. But then we started talking about it when I was a junior. And he says, I'll make a deal with you. I said, Dad, I think I want to do what you do. And puzzled look in his face, and he said, I'll make a deal with you. He said, I'll pay for half your college. He said, You're going to pay for the other half. I don't care how you come up with the money, but you're not taking out any student loans. I'm like, Huh, okay. I didn't even think it was negotiable. I like my brain kicked in and said, How am I going to make that kind of money? Granted, it doesn't cost, didn't cost as much back then as it does today. I had to think about how am I going to come up with that kind of money? So this lawnmower dad had bought, he said, Why don't you start cutting grass? So I'm like, okay. So I used his lawnmower, his gas, his trailer, his truck, and I ran around the countryside cutting people's grass and put all the money in my pocket. I eventually washed, there was a gas station I worked at, and the owners owned a car wash across the street. One of those you pumped the quarters in. And I said, Hey, Saturdays, why don't we let me from eight to twelve? I'll wash cars for the little ladies that don't want to get out and wash the car and get the snow and stuff off. I'll work for tips. So I did that. Got hooked up with a couple school teachers painted houses during the summer. Dad had introduced me and showed up first day on the job. They're on a three-story house. He points to the peak, he points to the 40-foot ladder and says, I just want to see the bottom of your feet. I have no idea what I'm doing. But I worked for these teachers for two winters or two summers, and then I ran my own painting business because they would go from six in the morning until two. I worked from two to six on my own. And by the end of my senior year, because the other part of the deal with dad in college is I had to be out in four years. So I had to end up taking summer classes. I started my business from scratch, my senior year of college, and I ended up having nine people working for me that summer. But this is how it's transformed and shaped my path right now. What I learned and what dad did, whether he intentionally did it or not, is that he taught me work ethic. He taught me that nothing in life is free. You got to have a vision. You have to have the desire. You got to want it bad enough to go after it. He taught me it's okay to think better, that to want more for yourself and to chase your dreams. When it came to college, really just opened my mind to the world of possibility and opportunity, embedded that growth mindset and it instilled that entrepreneurial drive that's shaped my career. It's basically in my DNA today. So I had skin in the game. I had to fulfill my end of the deal. Failure was not an option. And it got me into the world of running a business, and I learned responsibility, accountability, all that stuff. And by the time I was 21 years old, what dad had done is he had prepared me for the real world and set me up for success more than my college degree did. So long-winded discussion, but that's my path to becoming a financial advisor. And I got hired right out of college, which they normally don't do.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

I would love to expand on that. And something, for example, in Gabe's case, he has three daughters, they're teenagers going to college. I realized that, or I think that college today costs more than it did back in our day, but how your dad structured that was so remarkable. The question is, one of the things that you as a financial advisor is you guide people through their own decision making for themselves and their future, but how often do you get into conversations about their children and their grandchildren and help them instill those kinds of values? Is that something that that happens a lot? Or what would you recommend to someone like Gabe who has three daughters and they're trying to figure out college and those things?

Raising Kids With Money Values

SPEAKER_02 8:24

The biggest thing is, and I wish I I have three daughters as well. And I wish I looking back my failure as a dad, I wish I would have gone deeper in discussion with them earlier on about college and their future. I didn't do with them what my dad did with me. And it was just we're going on to college, that was an expectation, but we didn't really talk through matching up. I can think of a family example where I wish today the universities would price their tuition based on the outcome of the job that you think you'll get. That'd be better. It would be it'd be incredible because I had I have uh I can think of a person that went through their undergrad school, took out student loans, went on to master's, got a private college, and just come out in saddled in debt like a couple hundred thousand dollars, and their entry-level job started at 30 grand. You can't afford to buy a house, you can't raise kids, you can't buy a car, you can't, you're just buried. And I think that's one of the issues with today's education system. So starting earlier with the kids and just having that conversation, maybe matching up the type of university, or does it make sense to go to junior college first and get you know control it financially? Everybody's different. Clients I've worked with, some are we're paying for everything to we'll help out as we can, but you're gonna have to take out loans. So it's everybody's all over the gamut, and I can't pass judgment on their opinions and values. All we can do is listen and help prepare.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Mark, you've recently written a book called The Group A Mindset. Can you tell us about the purpose behind writing the book and who are you reaching with that book to help them out?

Why Mark Wrote The Book

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Going back to my dad's story, I'm now 21 years out old, just turned 22, fresh out of college, and he then introduced me to this world called personal development. And I think one of the first books I read was uh Stephen Covey's Seven Ham's Highly Effective People. Begin with the end of mind, right? But one of the exercises somewhere along the way was write down your lifelong, your life list, like the goals that you want to achieve. And so I'm 22 years old. I loved golfing at the time. So my had four things on my list. I wanted to become a world-class financial advisor and build a very successful business. I wanted to become financially independent at age 55. I wanted to join the senior PGA tour because I love golf. And then I wanted to spend the last part of my chapter or career teaching that, teaching what I've learned either through mentorship or writing a book or just something. Just how can I build something of value that is worth sharing and teaching to others so that they can shortcut the path to success more than I did?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Mark, how close are you to getting on that senior PGA tour now? How's that going? That wasn't BC, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

That was before children. Yeah. Three girls came around, it took away all my golfing ability. And to be honest, I haven't been able to really get back into it. That I just that was the dream that died. But for a while, it was funny because I look back, I wrote this stuff down when I was 22 years old. And throughout my life, I'm like, those dreams are dead. My goals are dead. I didn't think I'd ever achieve any of it. And then all of a sudden, a couple of years ago, we ended up as I started thinking about my succession plan and getting out of the business and what I wanted the final chapter to look. And we got hooked up with one of the most high top-ranked teams in the country that became part of my succession plan. And instead of selling out, I merged my business. I guess the challenge was, hey, Mark, you've built a good team and a good practice and a good business. Help me grow the Midwest. And this team that we joined, they're like a supercharged leadership development factory. And it just got me re-energized. And all of a sudden, it's everything I've been training for is this moment. I'm 55 right now. Could I walk tomorrow? Probably. Well, would I be happy? No.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

I have more to give, and that's where the book comes in. Yeah, that's great. And to check that off of the bucket list that you had created when you were 22, that's amazing. In the book, Mark, you opened the book with this powerful distinction between group A and group B, and only five to ten percent of people achieve true financial freedom. And so, what's the difference between these two groups? And why do so many successful hiring professionals they still find themselves stuck in group B?

Group A Versus Group B Explained

SPEAKER_02 12:40

The best way to answer that is to just paint the picture of what differentiates group A and group B. So if you think of the wealth management journey that we're on, usually starts when we're in our 20s. Like I was 22, first job, fresh out of college, no debt, thank God. But I was in a position where you know I'm making adult financial decisions. If you think of the adult decisions in your 20s, it's some you have to pay off student loans, you got to buy a car, you're saving for a house, you get married, you have kids and diapers and thorn wheel and all that stuff. But and then hopefully you have some money you can squirrel away into a retirement plan. But honestly, most people in their 20s aren't thinking about tomorrow because they're so consumed with today. So the wealth journey, if you think about we're trying to save and invest and grow the pot, it's really for the day that we want to retire at some point. And there's four paths people generally get to. When you get to that retirement age, you will either have built up enough nest egg, continue to grow, and you can live comfortably the lifestyle that you want. You'll be able to maintain that nest egg. It won't go down. You're just kind of living off the dividends interest, if you will, and you're still free from financial worry. And that we call group A. So wealth that grows, wealth it maintains. Group B, on the other hand, is you'll have wealth that will start to go down, but you'll expire before the money does, but you still have stress and worry, or you've got the people that are like, I'm done, I can't work anymore, I don't have enough money when it runs out. They'll probably run out of money before they pass. So that's group B. And that's the really the difference between the two. That became a passion of mine. Because, like I said, my dad had been in the business, and this is what all inspired it is when he was he got into management, he gave up his financial planning practice, got into leadership, and I watched him struggle health-wise. And after a couple of years in the business, I said, Dad, I said, You are so good at what you do. Why don't you come back? Let's do this together, let's build our own practice. And what he hit me with was super profound. It was like, wow. And his answer was, Mark, right now I lead a team of 20 advisors. If I can help them become better advisors, they can turn around and help more people become financially independent. He said, I can reach more people that way than if you and I did it together. And it was like, whoa. That was like one of the most profound things he's he ever said. Now, as I think about this book and the next journey and the team that I'm building, and we've got several office locations, several people. And now it's that whole combination, it's become my purpose and passion. So that's what keeps me moving. Difference between group A and group B, I'll give you a bullet point list, but it's just a deeper discussion, which we may cover some throughout the podcast. But a lot of it has to do with their own limiting beliefs. Things like I'm not good enough, I can't do that, faulty decision making, just making horrible financial decisions, using their 401ks as a piggy bank instead of a retirement account.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

My understanding of the 401k is that because it's locked up, it's good in the way that it's difficult to access because they have the penalties and all that stuff. And while that might be in one hand, not great, on the other hand, it forces some discipline. Do you find that's common that people actually do turn it into a piggy bank?

Shiny Objects And 401(k) Mistakes

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Not very often, but it is frustrating when it happens. Sometimes life happens, you just have to, you're just your back's against the wall. You gotta do what you gotta do. But the worst ones are when I call it the the shiny object syndrome, or some people will refer to it keeping up with the Joneses. You live in a neighborhood and the neighbor pulls in with a brand new truck and a nice camper or something, all of a sudden you're thinking about what I need a boat. I want that truck too. Yeah, of course. I need a boat, and then all of a sudden you weren't even thinking about it. But if you think about what that does from a financial standpoint, is it's that the shiny object syndrome is that dopamine rush. You see something, I want it, and then you can see the good that comes from it, you'll make brainiac decisions like cashing out your 401k because I want it that bad concept or thought for tomorrow. And next thing it's like once that dopamine rush wears off, it's that was really not a smart financial decision. So our industry is there's more to it than just managing wealth, it's really about helping people make smart decisions along the way and being their coach. I think again, the difference between A and B was the faulty decision making for a lot of group B people. And then when you think about your future self and what you want to accomplish in the future, I would argue that a lot of people don't think about their goals. They don't write them down, they don't think about what's important to me, and then they don't examine their core values and how those align. The people in group B group will do that a lot. So there's a disconnect between present self and future self. I would say people in group B live below what I call the line of consciousness, and they're stuck in what I call the drama triangle. It's just mindset and relationship with money. There's more to it.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

In the people that you work with as a financial advisor, do they come to you mostly already in group A and you help to optimize what they're doing? Or do you also get people in group B that you help transform to group A? Because just as I'm listening to you, it sounds like a lot of this is character, personality, things that I wonder how much impact someone can have unless they really have that come to Jesus moment.

Advisors As Coaches And Truth Tellers

SPEAKER_02 18:08

That's a good way to put it. It's that long, hard look in the mirror and to decide. And again, that's what I was trying to get at in the differentiating between group B and group A is for those that are it that can self-identify as I'm in group B, I make terrible decisions. Can we light enough of a fire that makes them say, I don't want to be, I don't want to do that anymore? And then if they get onto a path where they're open and receptive to advice, they're serious about their future, they've got the means and the capacity to take action and they're nice people, we'll work with them. When I started in the business, I mean, if there was a dead dog on the road that I could talk to about financial advice, I wouldn't have been involved, we're in a much better spot. Now, would I prefer to work with people in group A? Absolutely. I think we are well equipped with the resources that we bring to the table for those that are like they've once you've reached that point where you've accumulated a lot of wealth and you're getting closer to the finish line. I don't care if you own a business or if you're a doctor or white collar corporate executive, whatever it is, you reach that point where you just want to simplify, consolidate, and live your life. And you're looking for that one place or group that can help you do that. The do-it-yourselfers were probably not the best fit for them. That's always the argument with AI, too. Is your industry going to be okay? There's always the human aspect to what we do. There's that hand holding and that coaching and that kicking in the butt and saying, Do you really need that boat? How many more years do you want to work if you buy that boat? Is it that important to you?

SPEAKER_00 19:45

I was just having a conversation. And I think we get, I would like to think I'm in group A. You might be looking at me and be like, oh no, this guy's definitely a group E. I think at some point you can get comfortable. And my advisor was pushing me and challenging me and helping me focus it on my goals and what's important. And it's sometimes you think you can do it on your own, but I think the concept of iron sharpens iron is that how much better off would you be if you had that sounding board person that can help you ultimately get to what you want? It's not them imposing their values and their ideas, it's really them understanding. And I heard you say this about values, it's so important. What are those values? What's important? Is it legacy? Is it children? Is it whatever it might be? And how do you get there and hold them accountable?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

And then people ask fees, well, how do you get paid? How do you get audio charge for your services? On my side, it's fees for the advice that we provide. And I say you're gonna pay us annually to be your truth teller. And we're gonna take you through a process where we gather all the data and information and go back to your goals and we'll have the deeper conversations. We also get paid to help manage the wealth. It's a combination, it can be one or both hand.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Mark, speaking of those transformations, there's a story in the book that I know Paul and I both found fascinating and want to ask you about because you went from not having a lot of athletic things going on to competing in one of the world's toughest endurance races. Tell me about what happened and how that journey that you went on parallels that transformation that it requires people to start moving from group B to group A and building lasting wealth.

Ironman Training As A Wealth Metaphor

SPEAKER_02 21:22

I know what you're referring to. I had a good friend of mine in 2008 that he by all means was not an elite athlete or anything like that. He was just a normal person. And he signed up to do this Iron Man triathlon. And for those of you that don't know what an Iron Man is, the full fledged Iron Man is you literally get in a lake and swim 2.4 miles. You get out of the lake, you jump on a bike, ride it for 112 miles. When you're done with that, you strap on your running shoes and finish down with a cool down called the marathon, 26.2 miles. It's insane. We were camping one summer, my buddies were kids and families. Family, and we were taking this bike ride, and he had to go do a 50-mile ride first. I'm like, what the heck is he doing? Huh? He told me it was going to be in Madison. We went down and watched them start to finish. And to see 2,000 people get in the lake at the same time and just arms flailing and people getting kicked in the head. I got sucked into that journey because I'm like, first of all, why would anybody want to do something like that? And then it was just it made no sense to me. It's just dumb. You have 17 hours to finish. So we went there start to finish, watched them get out of the water. I literally bought photography equipment and put a whole photo of them together because I was just so sucked in. But what it did is it planted a seed in me, and it's and it made me start thinking. I transitioned that from that thought of why would anybody do it to I wonder if I could do something like that. And then that gnawed at me for two years. By this time, I'm sitting behind a desk, I'm gaining weight. I'm like 260 pounds on a 5'8 frame. I'm like pushing maximum down to the year, just not feeling really good about myself. So I made the decision. I said, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do it because I want to prove to myself that I can do it. I want to teach my daughters that you can do anything you can put your mind to. But then that whole process that one goes through is you have to I studied it and understood it, and then laid out my plan, and then I made the decision to do it and then started taking action. It's hilarious. Didn't know how to swim. I hated running, and I didn't own a bike.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Most people probably don't take that on if they don't know how to swim.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

It was nuts. I had all the excuses in the world not to do it. Step out of your comfort zone. If you're gonna grow, you got to get uncomfortable. And that's the difference between group A and group B. Group B lives in the comp world of comfort, they don't want to take risks, they don't want to take tanks. But I'm like, screw it, I'm gonna do it. I learned that there's a triathlon club. And hey, every Saturday they meet at this place, they practice swimming. So I show up one day, I walk through the door, I'm like, I'm here to train for an Iron Man. And the guy looked at me up and down and says, All right, hop in the pool. Let's go. Swim, swim. We'll do a couple laps, swim across. I was gassed getting halfway across the pool. My arms would just flay on. He was so polite. He says, He knew that I don't know how to swim. And he politely suggested that I maybe go get some swim lessons first and then come back. And that would have scared most people away. But I'm like, absolutely. So I did and got swimming lessons and started celebrating my small victories, but slowly and truly I built my way up. It was crazy. The fear of open water swimming because I'm a natural sinker. And I had this fear of open water, and my two youngest daughters both were in swimming at the time, and it was on my training schedule because I was following this to a tea open water swim. So I take her out to Lake Winnebago and I said, Come with me, just in case I don't do well. So she's out there swimming like crazy and all way over her head. And I'm like, get back here. I can't even stand up anymore. I'm like dying, hyperventilating. And she said, Dad, if you feel like you're gonna drown, let me teach you the sculling technique. Like, what the heck? What's a sculling test? So she said, just lay on your back, pull your knees up towards your chin, and just you'll float then. I practiced it, and my 11-year-old daughter saved my life. It helped me get over that fear of water real quick. And then I ended up going on to finish that journey. I did it twice. I did it in 2012, finished the Iron Man, and then fell back into my old habits and said, All right, I got to do this again. So I did it again in 2014.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

So two-time Iron Man. When you finished that first time, what was the feeling that you had as you crossed the finish line after accomplishing all of that?

SPEAKER_02 25:36

What was interesting is the whole day, because you've trained for 18 months for this event, and the whole day, I just had a the biggest smile on my face. My parents had driven down from upper Michigan to Madison to cheer me on. My daughters were there, friends were there, and and I just smiled the whole day because I just took in the moments. This is what I've trained for. So instead of being this like daunting task of the day, oh my God, I hope I make it through, I just embraced it and enjoyed it. And I had visualized so many times throughout my training of crossing the finish line with my arms pumped up in the air. And then when I came through my last lap, I don't know how many hours, it was quite a bit into it. And I come around the corner and I see my dad and see him light up that he started running with me all the way until I crossed the finish line. They're like that was one of the most cherishing moments. That's an incredible moment. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

When is the third one going to be?

SPEAKER_02 26:35

That's a long story, but my biking, my shoes have been hung up. I'm looking for things that are less impactful on the body.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Mark, in the book, you write about the pie fallacy and how most people think that their wealth is a fixed resource. And so, how does breaking free from the scarcity mindset change everything about how we approach money?

The Pie Fallacy And Abundance

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Coming fresh off Thanksgiving, the best analogy I can give you is a butterscotch pie. My mom makes the best butterscotch pie. And she knows we were there for Thanksgiving, and you walk in the house, you could smell it fresh and warm, the meringue on top with just that perfect brown crisp to it. She knows to make extra pies because yours truly, that's the only time once a year I get it. I always ask for extra. A few years back, she had made a bunch of pies, and that's when the grandkids were younger, had bigger groups. She had made a few extra pies, and I'm like, I had two full pies that I took back to my hunting camp, and I put them in the walk-in cooler, and I'm like, oh, this is my little stash. And I'm out in the woods deer hunting, and I come in that morning because all I'm thinking about is this butterscotch pie. I can taste it. I'm like, just oh, it's just gonna be so good. I get back to camp. The grandkids that stayed the night at camp, they found the pies. There was no pie left. I was not a happy camper. It was like, but the pie fallacy, it's if you think of that as money and wealth and scarcity versus abundance mindset, my scarcity mindset kicked in immediately because it's think of wealth as there's a finite number or amount out there. So if you think of it as a pie, if I take a bigger piece of pie, there's less for everybody else to get. In reality, if you have that abundance mindset, I could have called up mom and said, Mom, the kids ate the pie. Could you make me another one? She might have, but I was like really angry in the moment. And in the wealth industry, money, finances, whatever, wealth is not a finite resource. There's you run out of pie if you think of it as a bakery, the bakery can just make more pies. That's the difference between scarcity versus abundance.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Can you tell us about Jim that you wrote about in the book, who went from being completely done at 45 to helping his kids through college eight years later? And what happened that moved him from the drama triangle that you write about to financial freedom?

Drama Triangle And The Jim Story

SPEAKER_02 28:52

So Jim's a classic story. He was that young guy full of energy, dreamer, sold that dream to a little young lady. I'll follow you, I'll make your life great, and got into business and all this stuff. But what ended up happening is it didn't go as fast as anybody had planned. He uh made some bad decisions financially along the way. He was expecting to make more than he did, he spent more than he made. His wife at the time is expecting bigger things, and then all of a sudden you're not delivering on the promises you said, and now we got three kids, and just this whole thing that's what I call the drama triangle is you get caught up in this rat race. Call it the hamster on the wheel effect where you're going through the motions, but you're not making good decisions because you're trying to appease everybody and you're not being true to yourself and all this stuff. That was Jim Tua T. The more money he made, the more he spent. He wasn't banking money for his future, he wasn't he was just keeping up with the Joneses and just trying to keep everybody pleased and happy. And inside he was dying. So at 45 years old, he finally made the decision. I gotta get out of the drama triangle. There's three key players in the drama triangle. There's the victim, who everything's always happening to them. Don't take blame for anything, it's just woe is me. There's the villain, and that is who's to blame or what the issue is, and then there's the hero. In that case, Jim at the young age was the hero trying to sell the idea. You get the picture with that. The decision to leave the job drama triangle for Jim was to and actually get divorced. And he stepped back, took a long hard look in the mirror, and said, if it's meant to be, it's up to me. I need to make the decisions and put the pieces back together. After that had gone through, it's like there was nobody to blame. He was no longer the victim or the villain, and he had to be his own hero. So he then made the sacrifice and changes and started setting up discipline savings plans and setting money aside for college and paying down debt from a business standpoint. Made all massive changes that within eight years, if you look at the outcome, his net worth was about 10x where it was when he got divorced. And he had the money set aside for his kids' college, and so he just got himself on a better track. It boiled down to making some really tough decisions, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

It makes a lot of sense. I think that would mean a lot to a lot of people. My question is for Jim. You said that after eight years there was this transformation in the early years. Did it feel like he might not get there, or did he always have his eye on that prize that he'd make it because he was putting himself in the right direction at that point?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Jim was a believer. He had such a belief in his and a drive that he wasn't gonna not be successful. In business, we sometimes say that we are the product of the top five people that we hang around. Influence us the most by changing some of the people in his life. He got on that better track. Jim was a group B person, a group A person trapped in a group B world. And I might sound passionate about the story because I know it to a T, because I am Jim.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Mark, that's the classic reveal story right there.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

It gave me goosebumps actually saying that.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I just want to rephrase it and get to restate that is that a group A person trapped in a group B situation.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

It can so relate to that when it comes to certain goals. In my case, it's been health and weight and things like that. I see myself one way with reality sometimes different. It's inspiring because you feel like I'm in group A. Getting group B type results. Can you expand any more just in terms of that transformation? That's remarkable. In terms of being able to make those kinds of changes in such a short time. I think there's a lot of people that are feel that they belong in group A, but maybe some of the results are group B. And it's not that they don't feel like they're group B people. They feel like they're group A, but it's there's what's that transformation look like?

Line Of Consciousness And The Pause

SPEAKER_02 33:08

The best way to answer that is I'm gonna use an explanation. Everybody wants to think they're group A or B group A. And there is no I'm either one or the other, it's both hands. Like I was group B for a while, I don't know, group A, but then even though I might consider some of myself group A, I still display some group B tendencies sometimes with how I spend money or whatever, but I can afford to do it. There's a difference. It's nobody's fault that they're stuck in this group B world or this drama triangle world. The best way to explain it is what I call the line of consciousness. If you draw a line across the center of a piece of sheet of paper, and above that line, you write the word conscious. Below the line, you write the word unconscious. And then we think a little bit about how the human brain works. Now, I don't want to get deep, I'll keep it as simple as I can. The human brain is hardwired for us to fight, flight, freeze, or faint. It's to avoid problems and trauma and drama. It's to protect you. The three levels of the brain: there's the old brain, which is the lizard brain. When a stimulus comes in, it's like instantly solicits an emotion, and that moves up to the Labrador brain, which is that feeling part of the brain. And then usually out comes a response. And that's like all that happens in milliseconds. Well, if you think of that line of consciousness, all of that happens subconsciously. We don't have a clue, it's going on. It's just automatic. Above the line of consciousness is what I would say is our thinking brain. And that is our rationalization part. It is the ability to choose how we're going to respond. What most of us are hardwired, if you think of that line of consciousness in the drama triangle, is just this wheel we never get through because we're constantly stimulus response. If you put a pause in, we call it the freeze game. If you feel something's not right, or someone's got you off kilter, and you just say, hey, freeze for a second, and you step back and reflect on what am I feeling on the inside? What am I thinking? What am I currently doing and what do I want to do? And then what's my next best action? Let's just like inserting a little bit of pause to say, to give the thinking brain time to engage. That is the hugest difference that I see between true group A people and group B people. Now I've seen a lot of people that have wealth like group A people, but their group B, because they they got there based on scarcity. You think of the Great Depression days. I can think of a couple where mom and dad lived through the Great Depression, they had nothing, they lost everything. So these kids grew up with that concept of I need to save money. They've got more money than they know what to do with today, but they they still clip coupons, they do things, they sacrifice their lifestyle for the well, which they're just going to give to the kids that the kids are already doing well to begin with. So the whole point, it's a long-winded discussion. But the people that can, if you think of your brain as an instrument, the mind, the part above the line of consciousness, is what you use to play that instrument. And it's that space between your stimulus, what comes in the brainstem, and the response that you choose. If you can master that space, you will be that much more on track towards group A. Long discussion, but hopefully that made some sense.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Mark, from everything that you're saying, wealth, it doesn't seem like it's just about money, that it includes relationships and your purpose and the legacy that you're building. Could you share a story about clients that maybe discovered that and how it transformed the way that they did their own financial planning?

Values Based Wealth And Living Legacy

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Yeah, I can think of a story of clients we'll call Joel and Lisa. I've worked with them for over 30 years now. What I learned from them was that success in money and wealth is goes far beyond a bank account or an investment state. They chose to live in alignment with their values and their goals. Just to give you an example, they were teachers. They taught in the U.S. and they had two young kids and they decided, hey, let's look at teaching overseas. They uprooted, they had good jobs, good pensions, life would have been great financially, but they decided let's broaden the horizons and expand that for our kids. They up and left, they over the last several years, they taught in Peru, they taught in Mexico, they taught Jordan, they taught in South Korea, Guatemala, Turkey. They were all over the world. But one of the funnest things is they would come home every summer, they would bring in the checks that they saved by living overseas. Their wealth really just grew. They chose to live small, but get more enriching experiences for their kids by exposing them to so many different things. This day now they're retired, they're in a position where they could do whatever they want. They still travel the world several times a year, and the kids are in a good spot. The grandkids are going to be taken care of for college. But it was more about experiences than it was about money. So they sacrificed, they lived below their means, but they had a life that was so rich, and the kids all just wealthy because of it. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Mark, we've enjoyed your stories and the time that you've spent with us. Tell us how listeners can get in touch with you and get a copy of your book.

Where To Get The Book

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, so the website is called groupamindset.com. On there, you should get a link to the book that's also available on Amazon. And as I was thinking about it recently, just the whole legacy component, something I just heard sparked with me, and I thought I'd just share it with the listeners. They talk about leaving a legacy. Leaving a legacy is really pretty easy. All you gotta do is die. The challenge is to go out and Joel and Lisa did and live that legacy. Can I go out and live a legacy to give people something not just to talk about when I'm dead, but while I'm alive? Well, if you did that, what would that look like? So the connection would be the values to your goals and then getting good coaching and advice and guidance along the way. Can you do it yourself? Yes. Is every professional golfer usually have a coach? Yes. Do the mechanics of your swing? No, they just tell you what to do. It's up to you to do it, but they hold you accountable.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

They see your flaws. That accountability is huge. That's well put. Thank you, Mark. Thanks for being with us. You bet. Thank you, guys.