Welcome And Meet Jeremy

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Influential Advisor Podcast. Today we're sitting down with Jeremy Letterer, a CPA and tax strategist with over 16 years of experience helping entrepreneurs legally eliminate their federal tax burden. Jeremy is the founder of XIT CPA, 5000 Company, and the author of the Zero Tax Strategy. In this conversation, we're going to dig into why the tax code is actually an entrepreneur's biggest financial tool. What most CPAs miss when it comes to proactive strategy and the real-world case studies that prove zero tax isn't a fantasy, it's a blueprint.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Jeremy, welcome to the podcast. So good to get to talk to you today. Hey Gabe, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this. Yeah, me too. Jeremy,

From Pro Golf To CPA

SPEAKER_02 0:55

first to start off, could you tell me about your background, just how you got to where you are today? Where did it all start?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Well, fun fact, uh, my my first career was in professional golf.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Sounds so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

When I was a kid, I told my parents, I remember telling my parents, probably when I was about 12 years old, that I was going to be a professional golfer. I was very driven towards goals. I gave it my best job, but ultimately realized that there were going to be easier ways to make money, and I could still play golf.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Nice, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

So what I tell people is that I went to college uh to play golf, ended up getting an accounting degree. And uh my dad is an entrepreneur, love him dearly, we've got a great relationship. We actually started playing golf at the same time. As an entrepreneur, he understands incentives. And one of the things that he had the foresight to really guide me on was after college when all of this accounting knowledge, all this tax knowledge was fresh. He really wanted me to take the CPA exam, but he knew he couldn't force me. So you know where my heart was at? And he made it really easy for me to decide to take the CPA exams that summer. Basically, he said, you know, put his arm around me and he's like, Jeremy, what if what if I sponsored your pro golf career? How would you like that? I'm like, Dad, that'd be awesome. What do I have to do? Like, all you gotta do is pass your CPA exams, you know, like it's nothing. Um, long story short, uh was able to pass them all in the first attempt, which uh I learned later was pretty rare. I went down to Scottsdale, started pursuing uh professional golf and the mini tours made the money last about three years, but ultimately decided that uh like I said earlier, like easier ways to make money, still play golf, and also have an opportunity to help other people and grow a business and and uh leave a legacy for myself. And it's it's been great. I got no regrets.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

So, Jeremy, it's great that you offered that incentive. You took them up on it, and then how did that motivate you when you were studying for those exams? Were you pretty driven because you wanted to get that sponsorship going?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah, literally I had a like a poster of uh of Tiger Woods up uh up over my desk to remind me like what I was studying for. Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, like two icons in sport, studying them, their biographies over the years, it became really clear to any anything or to achieve success is at that sort of level takes a lot of hard work. So like what I was doing didn't directly apply to golf, but it was on that road. And the lessons I learned uh not only on the golf course, but off the golf course studying, it really has had uh a lasting impact on who I am today. Uh and I carry it through in the work that I do now. One of the things that I enjoy most is really finding the the hidden gem tax strategies out there. It takes a lot of effort, believe it or not. I'm sure this isn't hard to believe, but a lot of the tax strategies that you hear about out there are not very good. In fact, uh they'll they'll get you in trouble. Oftentimes they're not backed by a CPA, it's it's just a tax promoter trying to generate a big commission or you know, split the tax savings with you. So that's what I've learned doing this professionally since 2010 now, nearly 16 years I've been doing this. Tax strategy is a really unique animal, that there's not a lot of CPAs doing it. So when you hear about our tax strategy, just don't take it for granted. A lot of them are too good to be true.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Was there a moment, Jeremy, before you started your own firm that convinced you that people that were going in to have their taxes taken care of and thinking about strategy that they weren't having their needs adequately met? What led to you deciding you needed to go out on your own to be able to help entrepreneurs and other people to be more successful?

The Client Story That Quit His Job

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah, I'll tell you, Gabe, that it was a combination of factors. My dad, as I mentioned, was an entrepreneur and he's been audited six times over the years. Six times. Yeah, he's in his 70s now, so if you average it out for the course of his career, maybe that's not that bad. But it certainly looked bad watching him go through it. I'll never forget him hunched over the table with this grimace on his face as he's trying to sort through all these paper tax returns. Remember, like we haven't had e-file for very long when you look back at the grand scheme of things, and these stacks of paper going through receipts and trying to match them up with with bank statements. And what I learned from that is that there's certain things to avoid, there's certain things that are going to be more triggering of an audit. There's definitely an optimal way to put tax returns together to avoid an audit. So that's one thing that's been really a thing that shaped my career as a CPA and becoming a tax strategist. And the second thing was working my way up through public accounting. It was a big learning curve, very steep. There's not a lot of people that I've known, in fact, nobody that I've known that's gone directly into private practice out of college. There's just so much to know. Tax code is voluminous, to say the least.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Uh but uh the the last stop on my journey for of working for others before I went out on my own, I'll never forget it. It was uh 2014, Vale, Colorado. I was grinding away in April as tax managers deal, and I came across this particular set of tax returns. And I'll never forget this because the name on the tax returns, I'm not going to disclose it here, but prominent local businessman, very active in the community, his local church, I mean, created jobs, like he was building housing, like he also had a professional practice, just a pillar of the community. And uh he was relying just like any entrepreneur on the guidance that he was getting from a CPA. Unfortunately, he the bottom line of his tax returns were showing a $200,000 additional tax payment in April of 2014 based on 2013 performance. So he'd already spent that money. Like the managing partner at the firm I was with at the time just really didn't help him understand what to expect and how to prepare for this. So uh selfishly, I didn't want to deliver that news to him. So I went through his tax turns once, twice, three times, checked the source docs, and finally found something. It's uh a relatively common technique now, but back in 2014, it wasn't so common. It's uh a cost segregation study where essentially we're harvesting depreciation out of a real estate asset. I'll spare you the details for now, but a relatively simple technique and could be done retroactively, which was even better news, I thought. So I took this to the the partner and he basically dismissed me saying, We'll get back to work, we're not getting paid for that. He'll come up with the money, he'll find a way to come up with the money. And needless to say, that didn't sit well with me. I literally put in my notice the next day, and before I did, I told the guy, don't file your tax terms with this guy. There's something that we can do. You know, you'll come file an extension, let's work on it in May. And sure enough, we were able to reduce that $200,000 tax payment to $100,000 just by applying the simple retroactive technique. And of course, he was ecstatic, and that propelled me into my career as an entrepreneur and business owner and tax strategist.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Jeremy, I find that shocking that when there was that $100,000 of the $200,000 to save, that the managing partner wouldn't be on board. Why do you think that is? Why

Why Most CPAs Don’t Do Strategy

SPEAKER_02 8:16

don't people work in their clients' best interest to save them? What's standing in the way?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, I was very curious about that initially too. But after doing some research and talking to some of my peers, I discovered that the powers that be in the accounting world have made it very difficult for new CPAs to emerge. Typically, the reasons for that can be many, but they made the exams tougher, they made the apprenticeship program tougher, and simultaneously, like the same type of brain that does well with accounting, like also does really well with uh like software programming. There's a lot more money to be made for a long time in that field versus public accounting. You could make it happen for yourself a lot faster as well. But what this has led to is a situation where like today the average age of the CPA is is close to 70 years old. They're obviously at that point in their careers where like they're not looking to really speed up, but they're looking to keep things pretty level, pretty simple, pretty easy. A lot of them just have trouble keeping up with the tax law and just simply don't have the time because like they've been in business for so long, they don't have the time to explore new tax strategies. They're wearing a lot of times 19 different hats, and like they're just gonna do what you paid them for. It's a great lesson to learn in uh in any any facet of life life, but you get what you pay for. So, like, oh, you're listening to this out there. If you're only paying for tax returns, I can tell you from first hand experience, that's all you're gonna get. If you're looking for proactive advice and the best tax strategies that have been vetted that your CPA is gonna stand behind, you're gonna have to pay for.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Okay, so you leave that firm, you go into private practice. Jeremy, tell me about what you're doing differently now.

Implementation That Stands Up To Audits

SPEAKER_02 10:00

How are you making sure that you're finding every dollar that you can save for your clients?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, it starts with identifying the right type of client to work with. We're looking for someone who wants to engage in the process with us. I mean, although we're going to do as much as we can to reduce the amount of time that takes them, it does require their participation. Ultimately, the final step in any tax strategy is filing the tax returns. But there's a lot that leads up to that. There's conversations that need to be had, oftentimes new entities that need to be set up, tax projections, but probably most importantly is the implementation of the tax strategy, which is a big word, but what that means to us is really just documenting, substantiating, uh, creating a defensible position or a tax position that we can defend, so that not only do you get the tax savings, you get the peace of mind knowing that if it gets looked at, it's going to withstand the scrutiny. So that's preventing situations like what happened to your dad from coming up for your clients. So my dad's situation was very simple. He lacked the right type of entity to file his business performance on. And when I say business performance, the income and expense activity. We've learned over the years that the most audited form in human history is the sole proprietor Schedule C form on 1040. So no. Any of you listening to this out there, that's probably if you unless you'd like to be audited, I would highly suggest that you work with a CPA and a qualified attorney to set up the right type of entity so you can file your business activity on a separate tax return. And that we found that that reduces the audit risk by 95%. And not that we're scared of an audit, it's just it comes down to a privacy thing. It's obviously inconvenient, but just as important to me as the tax savings aspect is the audit avoidance piece. As I write about in the book, there's also a couple other domains that we look at while we're doing a tax strategy. We have the unique advantage among the so-called virtual family office team of seeing the client's situation every year. Oftentimes they come to us because they're experiencing tax pain. So we solve that problem for them and essentially create a budget for them to do the things that they haven't done yet from an asset protection standpoint and an estate uh planning standpoint. We really love the idea of the VFO or virtual family office. We love to collaborate with attorneys and financial professionals and accountants and bookkeepers, but we understand our lane. We will handle tax efficiency and the audit avoidance piece, and love to collaborate with other professionals to get the job done in the best, best case scenario executed for the client.

Writing The Zero Tax Strategy

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yes. I'm glad you mentioned your book. Jeremy, tell me about the book. What's it called? Who did you write it for, and who is it meant to help?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah, thanks, Gabe. Never thought I was going to be an author. I was inspired by one of a book that one of my mentors wrote. He's actually my executive coach now, Cameron Harold, wrote a book called The Vivid Vision, which is something I would highly recommend checking out if you haven't yet. Essentially, it's more than a vision statement. It's written as if you were your future self three years out in the future. Like, what did you achieve? What did you accomplish? Who did you impact? Kind of you reverse engineer it uh over like the three years that lead up to that. So uh my 2027 vivid vision involved writing a book because I felt compelled to get this message out there. I'd talked to some of my peers and they encouraged me to do it as well. There's some unique ideas in there, not only about the power of compounding tax savings, but also about the significance of implementation. So, really the message of the book for entrepreneurs is zero tax is not only possible, it's legal, but implementation is the key. So, back to what I was saying earlier, beware of the tax promoter who's promising you the quick fix. I can tell you from experience it takes a lot of effort to do this right.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Jeremy, okay, I want to dive into some of these ideas from your book. And one of the things I was

The Tax Code As Incentives

SPEAKER_02 14:18

thinking about is that a lot of successful people, they think that they're just stuck paying higher taxes, that especially if they're W-2 earners, what is it they're missing and that they may not necessarily understand?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

That's a great question, Gabe. And uh there's an entire chapter dedicated to uh W-2 wage earners in there. Uh, of course, the book is written for entrepreneurs of all kinds. We do not limit our definition of an entrepreneur to just a business owner. I like the way Dan Sullivan describes it. An entrepreneur is someone who takes something that already exists and puts it to better use. So in this case, we're talking about tax dollars. And a mentor of mine once said, if you want to change your tax, you got to change your facts. So just because the bulk of your income right now comes from W-2 wages doesn't mean you're prevented from starting a business or an investment company that has the same type of benefits that a business owner would achieve. What it comes down to is understanding that the tax code is an incentive system for entrepreneurs to do what the government wants them to do. It sounds kind of cliche, but one of the things that I like to say is that the tax code is not punishment, it's policy. So if we learn what's in it and how to apply it to our situations, we're going to be able to reallocate these dollars from Washington into our local communities and really make an impact. Let me ask you a question, Gabe. Yeah. How many pages do you think are in the US tax code? Is it hundreds? It's thousands. Just in thousands. The internal revenue code, there are 80,000 pages. But the entire body of knowledge that we consider to be the tax code would include revenue rulings and proclamations and court cases. And if you add all that up, it's over a million pages.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Million pages. And so who understands all of that, Jeremy? Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah. Yeah. And uh how many of those pages do you think actually pertain to paying taxes? Of the 80,000 in the internal revenue code, nobody gets this right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

It's got to be a low number. It's something like 2% or something really low, isn't it? Yeah, you got it.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I think 99.9% is closer. It starts out by saying income from all sources is taxable, yeah. Unless specifically excluded. You got about 50 pages of uh tax tables about how to calculate the tax, and the rest of it is literally about like how to avoid tax legally. Because legislation is so difficult to pass, what the powers that be have really done instead is regulate economic incentives through the tax code. So that's a fundamental premise of the book. And how we apply that most commonly, there's there's several examples that I could cite from the book, or I would encourage you to pick up a copy and skim through

Film Deductions And Leverage Explained

SPEAKER_00 17:01

it. But essentially what it comes down to is buying an asset that you can depreciate, and then you know getting the fact pattern right so that it's able to offset your ordinary income. An example of this that I cite in the book for the W-2 wage earner, since you asked about that scenario, yeah, um, would be film financing or film production. Qualified domestic film production has its own code section, believe it or not. Uh, section 181. Uh, who would have known Hollywood's got powerful lobbyists, right? They decided that it would be detrimental to the U.S. economy if films were produced anywhere but United States. So they they created this incentive for American film producers or film producers in general to produce films on U.S. soil. And that's Code Section 181. So essentially what this means is instead of spreading the cost of the film out over its useful life, which could be 10 to 15 years, you're able or investors or in producers. So if you're an investor in this, you're considered a producer. So producers are able to essentially write off all the money that they're spending on the film in the same year they're incurring the expenses. So you combine this with a leverage component, which is very typical in real estate. A lot of people out there have bought a rental house or own their own home. You know, it doesn't typically happen without financing. And that's when I say leverage, I'm talking about financing. So maybe you put you know 10, 20, you know, 30% down, let's say, and you're able to buy a larger asset than the cash that you have in it. But you still own the whole asset. And this is the same for film. So the way the math works on this, for let's say a hundred thousand dollar cash investment, you're able to buy a four hundred thousand dollar interest in the film. And that entire $400,000 is the deduction that you get. So here we have a scenario where you have $100,000 in the deal and you've created a $400,000 deduction. So depending on your marginal tax rate, this could be up to $200,000 of actual tax savings. So this is a tremendous return on investment just with the tax savings piece. And when I say reallocate tax dollars from Washington to your local community, this is what I'm talking about. So instead of that $200,000 going to Washington, $100,000 goes to your future self in the form of a piece of this film. And another four another $100,000 stays in your pockets where you can redeploy it into your business or your community or your future family legacy or whatever matters most to you.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

I think that's great that you bring out that side of it, Jeremy, because I'm sure most of us don't want to send our dollars to Washington. But tell me more about that, the way that money can be put to work, especially for entrepreneurs in their communities or in their families and their lives.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, and this is where I get I get really excited about it because it becomes more than just a mission, it's really a ministry and it's a stewardship issue. So when I was researching the book, I discovered that only 60 cents of dollars that go into Washington make it back into the real economy. So 40 cents, and this is conservative. There were some other estimates out there, but we'll say um 40 cents gets absorbed by something like bureaucracy, fraud, waste, abuse. It just gets absorbed by the swamp. That's why people call it the swamp. But the other side of that, Gabe, a dollar that gets reinvested in your local community can multiply by up to three times just because of the like velocity of money principles. Yes. And that 3x multiple is most common when you go out to a restaurant and tip your server where the cash spreads like wildfire. Get out there and support your local restaurants.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Yeah, I love it. And that sounds much better than sending it to Washington. Jeremy, can you tell me maybe another example of somebody that you've helped with something that they didn't think was possible? And maybe on the entrepreneur side this time, a way that you can help that really benefits them and keeps those dollars being put to work in what they

Case Studies Beyond Real Estate

SPEAKER_02 21:16

do.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah, our most popular strategy over the last couple of years has been in the healthcare software space. It works similarly to the film financing strategy, but is just in a different asset class. And what's what's great about what we do is it's not one size fits all. We start by understanding what people are naturally interested in or spending time on, and we match that up with an asset class that'll make it easier for them to get the active loss treatment that they need. That's a bit of a technical conversation that we don't need to get into here. But the most popular strategy over the last couple of years has been healthcare software. And I've got a story in the book about an entrepreneur named Amanda. And uh she's based in the San Diego area. She's a biotech business owner, uh, doing very doing very well. She's making about two million of profits per year. And uh, this isn't her real name. I of course sanitized it for privacy purposes, but uh she'd been trying to do real estate. She's like a great student of investing and even tax, but the asset class that she chose wasn't aligned with how she was currently spending her time. So in real estate, like don't ask me why, it's just the way it is, it's got the highest bar for what's called material participation. And this is the amount of time during a 12-month period that you need to spend on an activity to get active loss treatment, which is of course is the key to offsetting your ordinary income. You need active losses to offset active income.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

If it's if it's not an active loss, it's a passive loss, and it's not going to do you any good. So like she was investing in real estate, she was doing the cost segregation technique, if she was using leverage, like she was doing everything right, but because she was spending so much time on her main business, which was uh biotechnology, she could not pass the or any of the seven participation tests. So real estate was still a good financial investment for her, but not what another type of asset class could be. After interviewing her and understanding how she was spending her time, what her goals were, we determined that this healthcare software strategy would be much better aligned with her current interests and activities. And uh, we were able to actually zero her tax. This is one of our most successful case studies with about a $300,000 investment into healthcare software. Because of leverage and non-cash deductions, we were able to generate an offsetting $2 million deduction. So not only did she get to invest in this really promising uh healthcare technology startup, but also zero her tax.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

And also now she didn't have to take time away from her main business and give that to real estate, that this was she was able to do this and still focus on what she did best.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Is that right? 100%, yeah. So the opportunity cost was a lot lower as well, which we didn't even factor in. But like the just the ROI on the tax savings turned out to be close to 300% in her case, just because her income was so high.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Jeremy, I think the stories that you're telling, they really illustrate what you said that to change your tax, you've got to change the facts. And so can you tell me more about the way that these strategies can apply to help people change those taxes and to benefit them?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah, absolutely. It comes down to an educational process, which is really what the the book is designed to be the starting point for. But every entrepreneur is unique. And but I can't underemphasize the educational aspect. We're dealing with some tricky subjects here, but I'll give you one more example. This is a little bit more abstract, but now that we've set the table for the importance of matching up active losses with active income and the challenge with real estate for some people, there's another technique that we have used. I cite this in the book as well, but a really successful manufacturer in the Midwest. He'd also built a very nice portfolio of rental real estate and was getting frustrated because he couldn't use the paper losses that were being generated by the non-cash depreciation expenses because he was spending so much time in his manufacturing business, he couldn't generate or he couldn't convert the losses from the real estate into a form that would help him. So what we did instead was work with his estate planning attorney and his asset protection attorney to set up what we call a passive income generator. So essentially, this also helped his estate plan. He has uh a few kids, and so what we did is set up a management company that his kids owned, and we also set up a real estate holding company that his kids owned. So the kids are passive in both of these businesses. So the management company contracts with his manufacturing company, and the kids are getting passed-through income from that entity. So that's the passive income generation. On the other side, they also own the real estate holding company, which of course is generating passive losses. So in Tom's scenario, we're able to create equal and offsetting K1s for the kids. They don't pay any tax because they're getting passive income from the management company, passive losses from the real estate company. But because the management company is contracting with the manufacturing company, so the manufacturing company is paying the management company for services. So it gets a deduction, but the income, because it's passed through in nature, is flowing onto the kids' returns, where it gets absorbed by passive losses from the real estate. But there's all kinds of different ways we can slice and dice these uh techniques and strategies, but what it all comes down to is what are you best at? Like where are your current interests and activities? And then like if you're working with the right team, we can match that up in a way that not only uh reduces taxes and allows you to be more private when it comes to IRS audits, but also we're increasing asset protection and in Tom's case, estate planning, because all of a sudden we've got these vehicles where the kids are involved, and that was an important aspect of it to in this particular case.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

This is so different to me, Jeremy, than I think a lot of people think you just take your W-2s, you take your the forms that you have, you give it, you get your taxes prepared. But the strategies, this is incredible to think through the ways that it can change, and so you can keep more money at work and the things that you do best. I love it. I wanted to ask you since you brought up audits again, have you ever had any clients that have been audited and what happened?

Audit Wins And The Bigger Vision

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yeah, it's been pretty rare in the industry. We say it's a period of low enforcement, but we don't allow that to be any excuse to cut corners because audits do happen. So we prepare with the end in mind. And like we want to imagine a scenario, or a particular chapter in the book where I talk about an audit and we're very meticulous, we're very rigid, sometimes referred to as uh as demanding when it comes to like how serious we take the documentation and the substantiation. But what you have to realize is like I'm signing the tax returns, so I'm in it with you. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna file these tax returns unless we've got everything buttoned up and nailed down tight. In the book, I described a story where like he was it was like pulling teeth, getting this guy to jump through these hoops for us. Even though we made it as easy as possible, we provided him templates and coaching and unlimited access to us to to even like work on it together, like in live Zoom calls. He eventually did it, but we we had to file an extension for him. And uh I I could tell just working with him, he didn't like doing it, it was painful, but it was all worth it, Gabe. And I'll tell you why, because uh this case was seducted for audit, and uh there was a $500,000 deduction at stake. I'll never forget the phone call that I got from this guy when he got the IRS notice. He pretty much called me up and he tells me, show them everything. We've got nothing to hide. Let's make them go away quick. Of course, we only show them what they ask for. That's that's the key to passing an audit. It's just you handle it very well. We handle it very respectfully with the IRS. Like we understand that oftentimes they don't know as much as we do about the tax law. They're underpaid, they're overworked. Like they're just trying to do a good job, they're trying to do their job. So yeah, just just like we treat our clients, like we treat the IRS. We're trying to educate them, we're answering their questions. But uh, this turned into a big win. Client passed the audit without change, which is the the best case scenario. Like they pretty much gave them everything that they wanted, and they said no change, have a nice day.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

That's fantastic. Jeremy, you described this, you said it's like a ministry.

How To Get The Book

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Can you tell me what's the bigger vision for you here? Where are you taking all of this?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yeah, I love helping entrepreneurs. It's really my tribe. And I've learned that like the power of compounding tax savings is oftentimes enough for ambitious people to achieve financial freedom. And uh really that's what American entrepreneurism is all about. It's freedom of time, money, purpose, and relationships. And I've learned over the years that that entrepreneurs are very generous, warm-hearted people that ultimately want to make the world and this country and their communities a better place. And that's where my passion is, like helping them do great things for this great country that we call home.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

I love that. Jeremy, for listeners that would like to get in touch with you or get a copy of your book, how should they do that?

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, so we got a website out there, uh zerotax.com forward slash book. And uh you can pick up an electronic copy there and also book a call if you'd like.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Sounds great. Jeremy, so good talking with you today. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Thanks, Gabe. It's my pleasure. Good talking with you.